Timeline for Do all the Li-ion batteries in the world have just enough power to meet peak demand in the U.S.?
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| Dec 9 at 13:41 | comment | added | LShaver | Thanks for the information. I think a lot of the comments, and the answer itself to some extent, are losing the thread. The claim is not that batteries could or even should power the U.S. for one hour -- it's just a way to understand the scale of battery production and distribution. To that point, can you clarify where your 3,000 GWh number comes from? You've provided a source for U.S. peak demand, but what about "all the li-ion batteries in the world?" | |
| Dec 7 at 18:12 | comment | added | njuffa | @Jack Aidley Power of utility-scale battery facilities in the US will likely exceed that of pumped hydro by end of 2024: "In July 2024, more than 20.7 GW of battery energy storage capacity was available in the United States. [...] Most U.S. utility-scale battery energy storage systems use lithium-ion batteries." (source) "In 2023, the United States had about 23,167 MW of total pumped-storage hydroelectricity generation capacity in 18 states." (source) | |
| Dec 7 at 11:08 | comment | added | njuffa | @Jack Aidley I am well aware of pumped hydro. I am not sure what it has to do with my remark regarding "Li-ion batteries are not a particularly likely technology to use for large scale grid storage". The recent rapid growth of utility-scale electricity storage is pretty much all in batteries, most of them lithium-ion based. California currently has 11+ GW / 45 GWh of batteries while Texas has about 8 GW / 11 GWh of them (CA systems are usually designed for 4 hours at full power, while TX systems are designed for either 1 or 2 hours at full power). Further expansion in both states is ongoing. | |
| Dec 7 at 6:46 | comment | added | Jack Aidley | @njuffa Now look up Pumped Hydro Storage. | |
| Dec 7 at 0:01 | history | edited | Laurel | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 6 at 23:25 | comment | added | njuffa | @Jack Aidley Actually, some of the largest grid storage battery facilities in existence today do use lithium ion technology: "The Moss Landing Energy Storage Facility, the world’s largest lithium-ion battery energy storage system, has been expanded to 750 MW/3,000 MWh." (source). Long term other technologies may be favored for grid-scale storage but this is the state of the art now. | |
| Dec 6 at 21:04 | comment | added | JimmyJames | @JackAidley To your point, I was just reading about new Sodium-ion batteries (Na-ion?) being brought to market. The whole time the article focused on their potential use in EVs but it seems to me that, given the lower power density, they would be a better choice for less weight/space-sensitive applications such as grid storage e.g. residential solar complements. | |
| Dec 6 at 14:08 | comment | added | Chris H | A couple of things to note: The C-rate for charging isn't necessarily that for discharging, and with the C-rate (partially) thermally limited the picture can be rather more complicated when you take into account demands with very short peaks. That doesn't change the conclusion as such short peaks are shorter than the hourly average peak demand used in the calculations | |
| Dec 6 at 14:05 | comment | added | Chris H | Further to @JackAidley's point, grid-scale batteries have the advantages of very quick response times and being able to be placed strategically on the grid, so are very useful for balancing and tuning, rather than enormous storage. But of course there's overlap between roles and timescales | |
| Dec 6 at 10:05 | comment | added | Jack Aidley | I think it's probably also worth pointing out that Li-ion batteries are not a particularly likely technology to use for large scale grid storage so extrapolating from their properties is not enlightening anyway. | |
| Dec 6 at 8:12 | comment | added | gerrit | For context, it may be relevant to mention that in a country as large as the US, a nationwide Dunkelflaute is essentially impossible meteorologically speaking, and other forms of renewable on-demand electricity production exist (hydro, biomass), so it will never be necessary to power the entire country with batteries. | |
| S Dec 5 at 22:34 | review | First answers | |||
| Dec 6 at 8:12 | |||||
| S Dec 5 at 22:34 | history | answered | abestrange | CC BY-SA 4.0 |