Timeline for Is America “the only nation where this [a mass shooting] regularly happens”?
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45 events
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| Jun 13, 2022 at 21:54 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black The page on worldpopulationreview.com showcases, HEADLINES, the map, which would indicate that this is their primary answer. The writers are surely aware that this is what most will look at. To be fair, the central statement of the article is "Does the United States have more mass shootings than other countries? It depends on the data." I suppose that any reader can look at the article and decide for themselves; fortunately, I linked it, to make it easier. | |
| Jun 13, 2022 at 21:54 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black Of course, I have similar thoughts about your interpretation. My thesis was that assertions showing lists of simple frequencies per country do not reflect population differences. This page has a very nice PER CAPITA map, apparently current to 2022. (That's why it was relevant and I included it.) | |
| Jun 12, 2022 at 20:58 | comment | added | matt_black | @fred I'm sorry to have to point this out. But your argument seems to be that "I Like the conclusion the map shows and so do others so we will ignore criticism of the metric in the same source" That Is motivated reasoning not a skeptical argument. And the issue isn't about updates or currency, the map is clearly misleading on critical statistics (I've Mentioned the problem with norway before). You are simply trying to ignore criticism that undermines your source, not dealing with the criticism using evidence (even from the same source). | |
| Jun 11, 2022 at 15:58 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black The map is there, and it is used. You can choose to use other arrangements of data. The map is representative of other lists that are often used to demonstrate the point. The map on that page happens to be at the top of it, is labeled as current, and seems to be updated (at least a little). It's the last item in my answer. Another has already answered (since mine), comparing as I suggested. That source is also more evenhanded than you present. The critique is not specifically about the map at the top of the page. The body concerns a similar arrangement of data and they explain it. | |
| Jun 5, 2022 at 12:06 | comment | added | matt_black | @fred you are completely ignoring the specific issues I pointed out with the map (it uses a bad statistic and clearly milabels its time period). The later part of the same source points this out and offers an alternative statistic that puts the US at the top of the list. Plus the top 6 western countries in Europe have a total population larger than the US: that isn't "much smaller". If you don't like the other conclusions in your own source then don't quote it just because you like the first map. That is twisting the source for motivated reasoning. | |
| Jun 4, 2022 at 21:03 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black Other aspects of the map seemed to me to have been updated. I don't think that the map is mis-labeled. | |
| Jun 4, 2022 at 20:54 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black It's not a fair comparison. European countries are much smaller than America, and also generally less diverse. They are more analogous to states within the USA, for this purpose. Comparing USA to Europe as a whole gives more comparable results. USA doesn't stand out. | |
| Jun 3, 2022 at 21:23 | comment | added | matt_black | @fred And the list of comparison countries IS a problem, I agree. We certainly should not include either Russia or SErbia in typical western developed or democratic countries. The overall point being that the USA does stand out unless you choose odd metrics and dodgy comparison countries. | |
| Jun 3, 2022 at 21:21 | comment | added | matt_black | @fred The label on the map is clearly wrong. The Norway total is from a single incident that happened in 2011 and has not repeated. The French total includes a carefully planned, multi-site, multi-shooter terrorist attack. Averaging the deaths over multiple years does not represent the "typical" occurrence of these events in other countries. And using the mean rather than the median as the metric seriously misrepresents "typical". The alternative metric used further down the article show the USA at the top on a better metric... | |
| Jun 3, 2022 at 13:10 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black If we make a list of Western Hemisphere countries, also, for example (our closest neighbors), then USA also does not stand out. | |
| Jun 3, 2022 at 13:03 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black map says "up to 2022" ? (In any event, even that is just one example, as you can see, similar results from other lists, like the one in TNYT or from CNN. There are many such similar.) (Also, I think that the list of comparison countries IS a problem.) | |
| Jun 2, 2022 at 16:49 | comment | added | matt_black | @fred My point was that the metric used in the map was one that was criticised as being unrepresentative later in the article. It is the metric that is the problem, not the list of comparison countries. | |
| Jun 2, 2022 at 16:47 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black I think that comparing USA to most other countries is a false comparison. Comparing USA to Europe, or at least to half of Europe, may be a more valid kind of comparison. However, mass shootings are so uncommon that it is possible that no direct comparison is legitimate. | |
| Jun 2, 2022 at 16:46 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black That's from the map at the top of the page in that link. The USA is so much larger than these other countries, that relatively, if they have one event in 7 years, it is more per capita than if USA had 7 in one year. (Indeed, this is the main point of my answer.) It's misleading to show a list with USA at the top and a triple digit number, followed by a string of single digit numbers from countries with populations orders of magnitude less. | |
| Jun 2, 2022 at 16:08 | comment | added | matt_black | You quote only one metric from your final link which the report criticised for statistical reasons. Their alternative metric had the USA at the top. Not least because the USA had events every year whereas most other countries had only one or two in the 7-year period. | |
| Jun 2, 2022 at 6:36 | comment | added | fred | @matt_black That's only for one year. (Admittedly, ) See TimRias answer where he actually does what I wanted to do, compares Europe (as a whole) with USA. | |
| Jun 2, 2022 at 6:34 | comment | added | fred | Comparing USA to most other countries is a false comparison. Comparing USA to Europe, or at least to half of Europe, may be a more valid kind of comparison. However, mass shootings are so uncommon that it is possible that no direct comparison is legitimate. | |
| Jun 2, 2022 at 6:24 | comment | added | fred | @Schmuddi Yeah, but it's the simplest, most literal answer, considering the framework of the question. (That's what I started with.) (It's the actual answer - "THIS".) | |
| Jun 1, 2022 at 13:20 | comment | added | matt_black | Of the seven wikipedia incidents you reference, only three are outside the former soviet union and one of those didn't involve guns. Total western european deaths: 13 (including the non-gun attack), substantially less than the single US incident at Uvalde. What was your point again? | |
| Jun 1, 2022 at 5:48 | comment | added | Schmuddi | Personally, I believe that the frequency with which a satirical newspaper uses a particular headline is a very poor measurement of anything, so I don't think that your answer would be improved if you actually did what you imply. I like my suggestion more, to be honest. Oh, incidentally, the USA is a foreign country to many, if not most people in the world. Just saying. | |
| Jun 1, 2022 at 0:50 | comment | added | fred | @Schmuddi I could also have used The Onion to answer the question all by itself. "This" in the phrase "this regularly happens" refers to the kinds of events that The Onion chooses to affix their headline. It happens a few times per year, on average | |
| Jun 1, 2022 at 0:46 | comment | added | fred | @Denis Nardin It seemed to me that the opposite was true. That we have better data for USA than we do for foreign countries. | |
| May 31, 2022 at 21:16 | comment | added | Denis Nardin | One of the problems with this answer is that "newsworthy" is country dependent - many shootings in the US barely making local news would be national or international news in Europe, exactly because mass shootings are so much rarer there... | |
| May 31, 2022 at 17:27 | comment | added | Schmuddi | So your answer uses the number of entries in the Wikipedia category for Europe, and compares it to the number of Onion headlines. Wouldn't it be a better comparison if you also used the number of entries in the Wikipedia category for the United States instead? Then, you'd be sure to compare apples to apples (seven apples to 24 apples, to be precise). | |
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| S May 30, 2022 at 5:33 | history | mod moved comments to chat | |||
| S May 30, 2022 at 5:33 | comment | added | Oddthinking♦ | Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. | |
| May 30, 2022 at 3:39 | history | edited | fred | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| May 30, 2022 at 3:35 | history | edited | Oddthinking♦ | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| S May 30, 2022 at 3:13 | review | First answers | |||
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| S May 30, 2022 at 3:13 | history | edited | fred | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| May 29, 2022 at 23:44 | history | edited | fred | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| S May 29, 2022 at 23:39 | review | First answers | |||
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| S May 29, 2022 at 23:39 | history | answered | fred | CC BY-SA 4.0 |