Timeline for Have multiple intelligence services estimated that 15-25% of the Muslim population are "radical"?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
32 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| May 8, 2015 at 9:33 | vote | accept | MMM | ||
| Feb 3, 2015 at 15:11 | history | protected | CommunityBot | ||
| Jun 28, 2014 at 7:52 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackSkeptic/status/482793560639823872 | ||
| Jun 22, 2014 at 7:03 | answer | added | user1873 | timeline score: 8 | |
| Jun 21, 2014 at 7:45 | answer | added | Sklivvz | timeline score: 10 | |
| Jun 21, 2014 at 3:27 | comment | added | Oddthinking♦ | I think we've established that the claim that x% of a population are "radical" is meaningless (and inflammatory) without clear definitions. Gabriel's definitions are irrelevant; it is those of her (alleged) sources that should be used. I have edited the question to be whether intelligence services have made such pronouncements. Note: This remains unfalsifiable - it is impossible to prove that NO intelligence services have made such pronouncements. | |
| Jun 21, 2014 at 3:23 | history | edited | Oddthinking♦ | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:35 | answer | added | Flimzy | timeline score: 1 | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:28 | answer | added | ChrisW | timeline score: 5 | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:21 | comment | added | Flimzy |
@MMM: It's not I who made up the definition of radical that is a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist--it's a well accepted definition of the word--and one which can (at least in some contexts) be taken to mean the left- or right- X% of any group.
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| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:20 | comment | added | MMM | I am simply asking if there is there any source, using any interpretation of those terms that would confirm what she's saying. That's all. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:19 | comment | added | user5582 | Both: There is no need to call each other nit-picky. Focus on improving the question, or take it to Skeptics Chat. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:18 | comment | added | user5582 | @Flimzy Perhaps unclear, but not non-notable. As long as it is believed by many people, it is notable. As for a reasonable definition of "intelligence service", an answer could use this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_agencies | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:18 | comment | added | MMM | @Flimzy: You have edited your answer. Should I explain why I required clarification in the first place? Moreover I think you are being extremely nit-picky by interpreting the term "radical" in that manner. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:17 | comment | added | Flimzy | @Articuno: I think the lack of definitions make it "Not a notable claim." | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:15 | comment | added | user5582 | @Flimzy The asker doesn't need to define those terms. If the claim is ambiguous, so be it. Also, this discussion is straying off-topic. If you two want to talk about % of radicals in other groups, please use Skeptics Chat. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:15 | comment | added | Flimzy | As for how one could claim 15% of any group are radicals--I explained that to you. What part of the explanation did you not understand? | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:14 | comment | added | Flimzy | (cont) ... which also have "intelligence services." Does the Washington County Sheriff's department count as an intelligence service? These definitions matter if you want a meaningful answer. I'm not just nit-picking. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:13 | comment | added | Flimzy | (cont)... Any Muslim with beliefs that fall outside of "orthodox Islam" (again--whatever that might be)? Those who commit acts of violence? Those who sympathize with those who commit acts of violence? Again, any of these might be a valid definition, but it must be defined, else calculating a percentage is impossible. And lastly... Intelligence agency... You claim foreign intelligence. I don't think that's a meaningful distinction. The FBI is not a foreign intelligence agency, but they certainly investigate Muslims who commit crimes in the US (radical or not). So do local police departments... | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:11 | comment | added | Flimzy | @MMM: Clarification is needed because the meaning of the claim varies widely based on definitions of terms which are currently un-defined. Specifically, the following terms need definitions before an answer can be provided: 'Muslim', 'Radical', 'Intelligence service'. Is Muslim defined by anyone who claims to be a Muslim? Or must one regularly attend a mosque, or have membership in some Muslim organization? Or simply being born of Muslim parents? Any of these definitions may be reasonable, but will naturally change the population base significantly. Also, what constitutes a "Radical" Muslim? | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:08 | comment | added | MMM | @Flimzy Intelligence services or agencies are well defined "units" and I think it is pretty clear that she means foreign intelligence, I'm not sure why any clarification here is needed? Moreover I'm not sure how you can claim that about any group. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:04 | comment | added | Flimzy | I might also submit that one could make the claim that radicals make up "15-25%" of absolutely any group, as "radical" is generally defined as someone at one of the extreme edges of a demographic. Therefore, given any demographic metric, those who fall at 15-25% of either end are, by definition, "radical". | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:03 | comment | added | Flimzy | @MMM: That's still not a meaningful claim... who constitutes an "intelligence service"? | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 21:00 | review | Close votes | |||
| Jun 24, 2014 at 16:21 | |||||
| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:58 | comment | added | MMM | @Articuno: Basically she made a claim and I'm trying to figure out whether there is any source or any interpretation of some statistics that could confirm what she's saying is true. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:56 | comment | added | user5582 | @MMM I guess your question is whether all the intelligence services in the world do estimate the radicals to be 15-25% of the Muslim population. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:55 | history | edited | MMM | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:53 | comment | added | MMM | @Articuno Flimzy "(...) according to all intelligence services around the world". | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:40 | comment | added | Flimzy | Estimated by whom? Using what methodology? | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:27 | comment | added | MMM | @DJClayworth: I'm guessing she meant global population, you can have a look at the video | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:19 | comment | added | DJClayworth | This is going to depend on the definition of 'radical', and if you are talking about worldwide or some other Muslim population. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 20:15 | history | asked | MMM | CC BY-SA 3.0 |