Timeline for Did Jesus live?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
24 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 26, 2022 at 13:30 | comment | added | Ray Butterworth | The historian Jesse Lyman Hurlbut wrote: "For fifty years after St. Paul's life a curtain hangs over the church, through which we strive vainly to look; and when at last it rises, about AD 120 with the writings of the earliest church-fathers, we find a church in many aspects very different from that in the days of St. Peter and St. Paul" (Story of the Christian Church, p. 41). This is a strong indication that much of the early record of the original Church was destroyed during this period. | |
| Jul 3, 2019 at 9:27 | history | bounty ended | luchonacho | ||
| Aug 28, 2015 at 20:50 | comment | added | user13318 | Thank you very much, that is most helpful. I'm hoping the H.SE question will be re-opened since I've edited it. | |
| Aug 28, 2015 at 16:08 | comment | added | Ian W. Scott | @JackDouglas: Your question over at History.SE has been paused, so I posted a brief answer on my blog for you at iscott.wordpress.com. | |
| Aug 28, 2015 at 2:30 | comment | added | user13318 | I was planning to ask you this question directly (knowing that you are a historian and having greatly appreciated your answer here) but posted it to History.SE instead. If you have the time I'd be delighted if you'd settle the argument for me! | |
| Nov 7, 2014 at 18:44 | comment | added | Ron Maimon | @Scooter: I agree with that, but Paul is definitely a second-hand witness to Jesus, and a firsthand witness to the martyrdom of Steven (James?). Paul starts life as a terrible scoundrel ends his life as a great martyr, his writings are very important. He gives indirect testimony about Peter, although I am not sure how reliable it is. I am happy with the idea of a composite Jesus, made out of John the Baptist, James the Just, and maybe others. I don't care about the individual so much as the social movement. I am just trying to explain the "first and second hand witness" set is not empty. | |
| Nov 7, 2014 at 4:41 | comment | added | Scooter | @RonMaimon But what was Paul a witness to? He found out about Jesus from a dream and never met him. And he doesn't seem to have heard about the stories contained in the gospels regarding the birth and death of Christ. | |
| Nov 6, 2014 at 13:11 | comment | added | Ron Maimon | @Scooter: He isn't talking about the gospels, he is talking about Paul. Paul is the earliest witness, and he is writing in 40s and 50s AD. | |
| Oct 13, 2013 at 11:11 | comment | added | Scooter | "What we find is that within two decades of his death we have first- and second-hand accounts of Jesus' life and references to Jesus as a real person" I don't believe that we have either. The Gospels are "according to" but that doesn't have to mean that the unknown author(s) spoke to any first-person witness. | |
| Mar 28, 2012 at 15:54 | comment | added | Ron Maimon | @IanW.Scott: I asked about it here, hope you can help out: skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/8650/… . | |
| Mar 28, 2012 at 15:27 | comment | added | Ron Maimon | @Ian W. Scott: I am thinking about it. I had always been doubtful of the Jewish origin of Christianity, because the texts are so obviously majority Greek in thinking and philosophy. I wasn't sure whether Paul didn't invent the early Jerusalem church in order to lend outside support for his doctrines. But now I am more comfortable with the idea, because of the Hebrew gospels and the historical evidence about James. | |
| Mar 28, 2012 at 14:56 | comment | added | Ian W. Scott | @RonMaimon, I think the history of the Jerusalem church is beyond the scope of this thread. But there are a couple of good books on it by the German historian Martin Hengel. Maybe that deserves a new question? | |
| Mar 28, 2012 at 14:52 | comment | added | Ian W. Scott | Responding to @Monkey Tuesday's response about historical witnesses: It's not the case (in standard historical method) that evidence from a figure's followers need outside confirmation. It depends on what kind of claims you're talking about. Where they have a polemical agenda, those claims need to be weighed. But where they are not polemical (i.e., what they take for granted in debates with outsiders) and they are in a position to have reliable information there's no reason to demand secondary corroboration. | |
| Mar 28, 2012 at 14:47 | comment | added | Ian W. Scott | I've just updated my answer here with the references to secondary literature I had promised. Only a year late! Sorry about that, but I hope they're useful. | |
| Mar 28, 2012 at 14:45 | history | edited | Ian W. Scott | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Added the (long overdue) references to secondary literature in the footnotes.
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| Mar 27, 2012 at 6:03 | comment | added | Ron Maimon | I was hesitant to accept this opinion, but the existence of the Hebrew gospels convinces me that Paul's religion had a Palestine parallel. Further, the quotes from the gospels which survive suggest that Jesus was a person saying things to other people, and this suggests a record of a teaching, not a vague spiritual narrative of a mystical Gnostic figure. It would be nice to have more evidence about the size and composition of the Jerusalem church, together with some evidence of the belief system. | |
| Nov 15, 2011 at 5:33 | comment | added | user4951 | What about James, brother of Jesus that are killed by the Sanhedrin. The leader of the Sanhedrin is fired for that I think. That looks historical enough. Can we trace Jesus from that? | |
| Oct 14, 2011 at 17:29 | comment | added | user unknown | That monday never happened. :) | |
| Apr 1, 2011 at 20:54 | comment | added | Monkey Tuesday | "One difficulty with the way the question is posed here is that it rules out any evidence coming from Jesus' followers. But that's not good historical method". I am asking specifically if the claims of those followers can be verified. They cannot, by definition, validate themselves. | |
| Apr 1, 2011 at 19:04 | history | edited | Ian W. Scott | CC BY-SA 2.5 |
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| Apr 1, 2011 at 18:57 | history | edited | Ian W. Scott | CC BY-SA 2.5 |
Added several references, and notes where I'll add a few more
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| Apr 1, 2011 at 18:17 | comment | added | Ian W. Scott | I should add that on several points here I'm speaking from my personal acquaintance with the primary sources. Given my academic credentials (which I don't want to wave too much) I think I'm in a position to speak about, e.g., the fact that we don't usually find Christian interpolations about Jesus in ancient historians. I've read the sources and this is my field. But I'm more than happy to provide some other sources where specifics would be helpful. | |
| Apr 1, 2011 at 18:10 | history | edited | Ian W. Scott | CC BY-SA 2.5 |
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| Apr 1, 2011 at 17:45 | history | answered | Ian W. Scott | CC BY-SA 2.5 |