There are many claims made about the source of fluoride in our water, some examples are:

Is the fluoride added to the water supply produced as an industrial waste product? And does it due to this origin contain any harmful components in significant amounts?

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As a former resident of Queensland, I looked with interest at the third link provided in the question. The claims are extreme, so I believe it is valuable to address their claims directly, line by line.

WHAT DO THEY ACTUALLY PUT IN THE WATER?

The three Fluoride chemicals that could be added to Queensland water supplies for fluoridation are Hydrofluorosilicic Acid, Sodium Silicofluoride or Sodium Fluoride.

I am going to take their word for that.

Hydrofluorosilicic Acid and Sodium Silicofluoride are collectively known as the Silicofluorides and are the chemicals used most in other Australian states fluoridation schemes.

I am going to take their word for that.

The two Silicofluorides chemicals used, are waste products of Phosphate fertilizer manufacture.

One of the fundamental concepts of Chemistry - one of the most important ideas that have advanced science - is that everything is made of atoms. It doesn't matter, chemically, where the atoms come from, they still react the same way. So, from a health perspective, that they are waste products of another process is irrelevant. [Reference: Year 8 high school science class.]

From a political standpoint that may be relevant, but that's not being argued here. From an emotional standpoint, we associate "waste" with "bad". If we replaced the emotive term "waste" with "recycled" suddenly it sounds positive!

They are industrial grade, not pharmaceutical grade products and can contain small residues of toxic heavy metals such as cadmium, mercury or lead.

The introduction of the phrase "pharmaceutical grade" here is a red herring. Most items we ingest are not pharmaceutical grade. The sugar you put in your coffee isn't pharmaceutical grade, and nor is the coffee itself. Why should the water be? The standard here should be "food grade", and the water coming from the tap (certainly in first world countries) is rigorously monitored and controlled. (I'd include a reference here, but it is dependent on your local government, so I can't give a universal answer. I have examined the regulations for a number of states here in Australia, and there are a huge number of pollutants tested for, including heavy metals.) Once the chemicals coming in are dissolved to 1 ppm (see other answer), the "small residues" are going to be diluted even further, making the issue of industrial versus food grade inputs irrelevant. It is the output that matters.

The two Silicofluoride compounds used DO NOT EVEN OCCUR IN NATURE, yet fluoridation promoters call fluoride "NATURAL”.

I will take their word for the fact that the compounds don't occur in nature. Not only is the "natural" argument irrelevant (as they later point out themselves), but the reagents used are irrelevant, as the flouride is no longer attached to the rest of the compound once it is in solution. [Reference: Year 11 high school Chemistry class]

I would, however, like citations for where flouridation promoters call it natural. Are they referring to the silicofluorides or to the idea of fluoride being dissolved in fresh water?

No toxicology studies have ever been performed on the Silicofluoride used in water fluoridation schemes. The only toxicology studies ever done, have been done on Pharmaceutical grade Sodium Fluoride as is used in toothpaste.

Toxicology studies have been done on the fluoride dissolved in the drinking water (see other answer), which is where it is relevant.

Currently less than 5% of Queensland's population drinks fluoridated water.

I'll take their word for it, but irrelevant to the argument (except to explain why there is a motivation to start flouridating water.)

Sodium Fluoride is a waste product of Aluminium smelting and is the fluoridation chemical used in Queensland in Dalby, Mareeba, Moranbah and Townsville/ Thuringowah.

Again, the source of the chemical is irrelevant from a chemical/health perspective.

Freedom of Information reveals that water supply of Bamaga is fluoridated with a Silicofluoride and that Sodium Fluoride used in other Queensland areas is imported from China.

It would appear that most of the Queenslanders that are currently drinking fluoridated water are drinking water fluoridated with imported Chinese industry waste products, probably sourced as a waste product of the Chinese Aluminium smelting industry.

Certainly the source country is irrelevant for health effects. It is only relevant to trigger emotive patriotic and political concerns. Similarly, it doesn't matter how the information was obtained - citing "Freedom of Information" strikes an emotive chord that the government may be trying to otherwise hide something. I would like to see a cite of the request and the resulting data, to ensure we aren't being exploited by people putting in FoI requests where a regular request (or even web search!) would get the same information.

Water from rivers, creeks or dams does contain small amounts of natural fluoride. Levels of fluoride in SE Qld surface waters are usually only about 0.1 parts per million, or nine times less the amount of the Fluoride that Queensland Government plans on adding to Brisbane's water supply.

Okay, I'll take their word for that.

Fluoride occurs naturally in water when water flows though or over rocks and abrades rocks that contain Fluorspar, or Calcium Fluoride (Ca F2). Calcium fluoride is very insoluble. Water that contains natural Fluoride from abraded Fluorspar containing rocks also contains Calcium which can offer some protection from Fluoride. Fluoride binds with Calcium readily and Calcium is given as a treatment for Fluoride poisoning.

Most of this sounds plausible, and I confirmed that Calcium Flouride is very insoluble on Wikipedia, so no disagreements here. Note: they are straying awfully close to the "natural is good" fallacy that they themselves later attack.

Calcium Fluoride (the natural form of Fluoride) is not permitted to be added to any Australian water supply.

I would like a cite for that. I note that it has been approved for food by the EU. If there is such a restriction, is it just to avoid unnecessary mining? (5 Billion kg mined annually [Holleman, A. F.; Wiberg, E. "Inorganic Chemistry" Academic Press: San Diego, 2001. ISBN 0-12-352651-5., via Wikipedia]) Or concerns that there is a cost of extracting the Flouride with concentrated Sulphuric Acid (Wikipedia) before adding it to the water, thus defeating the purpose of using a "natural" source.

Groundwater as in bore water or well water can contain very high levels of "natural" fluoride and in parts of China, India and the Rift Valley, natural Fluoride has led to devastating health effects such as crippling Skeletal Fluorosis for millions of people. Arsenic, Lead and Mercury are also "natural". Natural does not necessarily mean good or desirable.

I believe all of this to be true. If anyone proposed to set flouride levels to the point they could trigger skeletal fluorosis, that would be terrible. Fortunately, I have seen no proposals to exceed the World Health Organization recommended maximum fluoride value at which fluorosis should be minimal [ref: Fawell J, Bailey K, Chilton J, Dahi E, Fewtrell L, Magara Y. Fluoride in Drinking-water [PDF]. World Health Organization; 2006. ISBN 92-4-156319-2. Guidelines and standards. p. 37–9. via Wikipedia].

The Silicofluoride compounds used for water fluoridation are very acidic and addition to water often entails addition of other chemicals such as soda ash to neutralize the acidity to prevent corrosion of water reticulation equipment. Appendix one of the 1999 NHMRC Review of water fluoridation was a questionaire for Councils which fluoridate and included a request for any evidence for Fluoride incompatibilities, such as enhanced corrosion or breakdown of gaskets or seals, in the water distribution network.

Okay. Someone asked a question. And?

The Queensland Government has said they would pay the setting up costs of fluoridation, but will not be paying for any recurrent and on going costs. Any Fluoride caused corrosion problems in water treatment plants or water reticulation systems would be to the future cost of Councils and ratepayers.

The Queensland Government is funded by tax-payers. The local council is funded by tax-payers. This isn't a health argument, it is an argument about which bucket of tax-payer money should be used within a political system, and therefore is not subject to scientific scrutiny.

In conclusion: there are a number of emotive arguments here, but no references, and some half-truths. I would look elsewhere for evidence that flouridation contains harmful components. It may be right that that the flouride is extracted from the output of other industrial processes, but that is both irrelevant (from a consumer health and safety perspective) and claimed without evidence here.

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"It doesn't matter, chemically, where the atoms come from" Carbon from the atmosphere has a higher proportion of radioactive isotopes than carbon atoms that have been buried for a very long time, which is how carbon dating works. While they might be largely the same from a chemistry perspective, there can be important differences. Mind you, it probably doesn't affect the debate on fluoride, but it's worth mentioning... – Highly Irregular Feb 3 at 1:55
@HighlyIrregular: I agree with your clarification: Yes, the isotope ratio may be theoretically different based on the source, and, yes, that makes no difference to the chemistry involved in the fluoride debate. – Oddthinking Feb 3 at 2:48
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My answer will focus on water fluoridation.

Virtually all water contains some amount of fluoride.

Water fluoridation is the process of adding fluoride to the water supply so that the level reaches approximately 1 part fluoride per million parts water (ppm) or 1 milligram fluoride per liter of water (mg/L); this is the optimal level for preventing tooth decay. [Source]


From the World Health Organization:

Research on the oral health effects of fluoride started around 100 years ago;
The focus has been on the link between water and fluorides and dental caries and fluorosis, topical fluoride applications, fluoride toothpastes, and salt and milk fluoridation.

WHO recommends for public health that every effort must be made to develop affordable fluoridated toothpastes for use in developing countries.

Water fluoridation, where technically feasible and culturally acceptable, has substantial advantages in public health;

Alternatively, fluoridation of salt and milk fluoridation schemes may be considered for prevention of dental caries.


From History of Water Fluoridation:

Water fluoridation has been described by the Centre for Disease Control (CDC) as one of the ten most important public health advances of the 20th Century.

Currently, some 40 countries have artificial water fluoridation schemes in existence. ... it is estimated that 400 million people have access to fluoridated water worldwide.

e.g. (numbers are from 2004)

  • USA (64%)
  • Canada (43%)
  • Panama (18%)
  • Republic of Ireland (73%)
  • Australia (61%)
  • New Zealand (61%)
  • Israel (75%)
  • Malaysia (70%)
  • United Kingdom (10%)
  • Singapore (100%)
  • Brazil (41%)
  • Argentina (21%)
  • Chile (40%)
  • Spain (10%)
  • Columbia (80%).

Water fluoridation Source


If you live in the USA, the CDC lists fluoridation levels by state.


Safety of Water Fluoridation:

The question of the safety of water fluoridation has been investigated time and time again by a variety of national and international commissions, most notably in recent times by the NHS Centre for Reviews and Dissemination in 2000 (the York Review).

York's main conclusion was that there was no clear evidence of any adverse effect from water fluoridation other than staining of enamel (dental fluorosis).

The York Review has been followed up in the United Kingdom by the Medical Research Council (MRC).
The MRC's view is that there is very little cause for concern on any potential general health issue in relation to water fluoridation.

From The National Cancer Institute:

In one of the studies reviewed for the Public Health Service (PHS) report, scientists at the National Cancer Institute evaluated the relationship between the fluoridation of drinking water and the number of deaths due to cancer in the United States during a 36-year period, and the relationship between water fluoridation and number of new cases of cancer during a 15-year period.

After examining more than 2.2 million cancer death records and 125,000 cancer case records in counties using fluoridated water, the researchers found no indication of increased cancer risk associated with fluoridated drinking water.


But there are concerns about water fluoridation:

Some recent studies suggest that overconsumption of fluoride can raise the risks of disorders affecting teeth, bones, the brain and the thyroid gland.

The WHO acknowledges this:

Fluoride is one of the very few chemicals that has been shown to cause significant effects in people through drinking-water.

Fluoride has beneficial effects on teeth at low concentrations in drinking-water, but excessive exposure to fluoride in drinking-water, or in combination with exposure to fluoride from other sources, can give rise to a number of adverse effects.


What is used for Water Fluoridation?

From the CDC - Water Fluoridation Manual:

There are several practical considerations involved in selecting compounds:

  • the compound must have sufficient solubility to permit its use in routine water plant practice.
  • the cation to which the fluoride ion is attached must not have any undesirable charasteristics
  • the material should be relatively inexpensive and readily available in grades of size and purity suitable for their intended use.

Sodium Fluoride
The first fluoride compound used in water fluoridation. It was selected on the basis of the above
criteria and also because its toxicity and physiological effects had been so thoroughly studied.

Sodium Silicofluoride
As with most silicofluorides, it is generally obtained as a by product from manufacture of phosphorus fertilizers.
Once it was shown that ... there is no difference in the physiological effect, silicofluorides (and hydrofluosilic acid) were rapidly accepted for water fluoridation, and in many cases, have displaced the use of sodium fluoride.

Other Fluoride Chemicals
Hydrofluoric acid (not hydrofluosilici acid), although low in cost, presents too much safety and
corrosion hazard to be acceptable for water fluoridation.

Note: A "by product" isn't automatically a "bad" thing. It just means it's not the primary product.


More Sources:

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A trace of a harmful element does not have to be detectable to be harmful. A poison is a poison, is a poison, no matter how little you consume. It degrades biological life and eventually kills you earlier than you should have, after generating degenerative illnesses. There is a direct correlation between degenerative diseases and the increasing implementation of fluoridation, aggravated by poor eating habits, the increase in the consumption of sugars and the increase in toxins ingested by populations of anglosaxon ancestry or influence by them.

Fluoridation reviews are not proof of safety of any product. They have always been mostly composed of proponents of fluoridation. The York Review did not endorse fluoridation. Merely pointed out that more research into possible health effects are required to confirm any toxic effects. This was also further reinforced by the EPA NRC report 2006, Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards - National Research Council .U.S.A., 2006.

One can also read the EPA scientists reasons for opposing water fluoridation: at http://ffo-olf.org/whyEpaOpposed.html. The union representing the scientists at EPA headquarters have said, “The toxicity of fluoride is so great and the purported benefits … are so small, if there are any at all, that requiring every man, woman and child in America to ingest it borders on criminal behavior.”

"In my opinion, the evidence that fluoridation is more harmful than beneficial is now overwhelming and policy makers who avoid thoroughly reviewing recent data before introducing new fluoridation schemes do so at risk of future litigation." - Dr. Hardy Limeback, NRC Panel Member.

Fluoride is proven to do more harm than good. How does that make you feel? No naturally occurring fluoride substance or pharmaceutical grade fluoride substance is used in any fluoridation practices. Only hazardous toxic waste fluoride is used. There are no data or scientific findings that show that sodium fluoride, fluorosilicic acid and sodium silicofluoride prevent tooth decay. Fluoride is the greatest case of fraud of this century, if not of all time. fluoridation: "… was a foolish thing to do years ago, they didn't have enough information, they hadn't really been tested. It's accumulative poison. It just gradually builds up and it gradually causes harm." - Dr. Robert Carton, PhD, - former U.S. EPA Scientist.

I know of absolutely no, and I mean absolutely no means of prevention that would save so many lives as simply to stop fluoridation, or don't start where it is otherwise going to be started. There you might save 30,000, 40,000 or 50,000 lives a year, cancer lives. That is an awful lot of lives a year. - Dr. Dean Burk, PhD, 34 years at the National Cancer Institute (U.S.A.), Judicial Hearing, January 14, 1982.

In case you forget, the Maximum Allowable Contaminant level for the substance used as a fluoridating agent has been set at 4 mg per liter per day by the EPA. Don't you wonder why they call it a contaminant? How is it that it can be sold as a product, put into a tanker truck and then magically no longer a contaminant, but become good for our health?

That there is even the remotest possibility of evidence of harm is reason enough to require a moratorium on the practice until definite reliable and valid data are available to prove that there is no harm. Once in the water, it is a medication because it is used to treat a disease. Then why is it that no one is monitoring for side effects, for long term adverse reactions? It has never been proven to be safe for use as medication? This has been the first time in the history of mankind that anyone has claimed that a hazardous waste has health benefits... • even though no chronic toxicological studies have been performed on them! • even though no government agency has assessed their safety! • HHS has failed to confirm the safety of silicofluorides . Despite being used in more than 90% of artificial water fluoridation schemes, no chronic toxicity testing of silicofluorides has ever been completed: “No short-term or subchronic exposure, chronic exposure, cytotoxicity, reproductive toxicity, teratology, carcinogenicity, or initiation/promotion s tudies were available” for the toxicological summary for silicofluorides, as prepared for the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. (44) However, recent epidemiological research has found an association between the use of silicofluoride-treated community water and increased blood lead concentrations in children (45) – a link that is consistent with recent laboratory findings. (46) HHS has failed to inform the American public that the fluoridating agent used in drinking water is a hazardous waste product from the phosphate fertilizer industry, and can be laced with arsenic and radionuclides, (47, 48) which are known carcinogens. HHS should not support the addition of a non-tested substance to our drinking water.

{44. Haneke KE and Carson BL. 2001. Sodium Hexafluorosilicate [CASRN 16893-85-9] and Fluorosilicic Acid [CASRN 16961-83-4]: Review of Toxicological Literature. Prepared for Scott Masten, Ph.D., National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina. Contract No. N01-ES-65402. Online at ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/Chem_Background/ExSumPDF/Fluorosilicates.pdf

  1. Coplan MN, Patch SC, Masters RD, Bachman MS. 2007. Confirmation of and explanations for elevated blood lead and other disorders in children exposed to water disinfection and fluoridation chemicals. Neurotoxicology Sep;28(5):1032-42.

  2. Maas RP, Patch SC, Christian AM, Coplan MJ. 2007. Effects of fluoridation and disinfection agent combinations on lead leaching from leaded-brass parts. Neurotoxicology Sep;28(5):1023-31.

  3. Hanmer R. 1983. Letter to Leslie A. Russell, D.M.D, from Rebecca Hanmer, Deputy Assistant Administrator for Water, US EPA. Mar 30, 1983. Copy of original letter at fluoridealert.org/re/hanmer1983.pdf

  4. Hazan S. 2000. Letter from Stan Hazan, General Manager, Drinking Water Additives Certification Program, NSF International; to Mr. Juan (Pepe) Menedez, State of Florida, Department of Public Health, Tallahassee FL. April 24. Online at fluoridealert.org/NSF-Letter.pdf}

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"A trace of a harmful element does not have to be detectable to be harmful." Irrelevant. Fluoride is detectable at the levels we are talking about. "A poison is a poison, is a poison" Incorrect. Dosage matters, or else you would never drink water. "It degrades biological life [...] generating degenerative illnesses." All poisons do? Or flouride? "magically no longer a contaminant, but become good for our health" Dosages matter. " remotest possibility of evidence of harm is reason enough to require a moratorium on the practice" Quick! Let's ban cars, bicycles, hammers, and kites first. – Oddthinking Aug 3 '11 at 5:38
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"They have always been mostly composed of proponents of fluoridation." The causation might be the other way around, of course. They may have looked at the peer-reviewed scientific literature (rather than letters or that of political organisations such as, say, unions) and BECAME proponents. – Oddthinking Aug 3 '11 at 5:47
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The above comments don't address your sources. I thought I should tackle at least one before putting this aside, so I looked at your first one: Fluoride in Drinking Water. This doesn't argue against any fluoridation proposals. It argues that too much fluoride in water is bad, and the max levels should be lowered. But those new max levels are still much higher than artificial fluoridation treatments produce. All it says is: dosage matters. – Oddthinking Aug 3 '11 at 5:53
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-1 for "A poison is a poison, is a poison, no matter how little you consume" which is nonsense of the worst kind. Most things kill in excess, even water. It's the dose that makes the poison. – matt_black Oct 15 '11 at 23:36
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